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Old May 21st, 2010
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Nine_c1 Nine_c1 is offline
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Exclamation Radar Detector Reaction Time Test

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Welcome to both members of the Escort Radar Forum and Rd.net!

Folks who want to know how well their Belscort or V1 detectors respond to short duration IO (Quick Triggers) have come to the right place! Members CJR238, RIPTIDE and myself put on a little test this past weekend to find out that answer!

Before CJ puts up the post of the results of the Stationary Tests, I just want to give you the protocol we used for testing so that you understand the controls that were applied.

Test Protocol:

First we selected a location that would be free of interfering traffic and objects. How about a wide open empty parking lot. The lot was surveyed to insure we were out of range of any spurious K or Ka signals which were the bands we were testing.

Next.....we needed host vehicles for the Radar and RD's themselves to mount and test the units in. Our cars sufficed nicely. We decided to put the Radar car in the center and the RD cars on either side at approx 10ft to permit easy communication but at the same time give some buffer between the vehicles with the RD's under test. We aligned ourselves opposite a bldg that the Radar shots could be bounced off of to provide an even strength signal to each RD.



The Source of the signals was a Kustom Golden Eagle Radar with both a K-Band antenna and Ka 35.5 attached. Using this Radar and a digital sports timer, we were able to switch efficiently between both Bands during the test and accurately time our shots.



Now about how the test itself was conducted. Our initial plan was to run the M3 remotes in tandem with a windshield mount to shorten the test time. We had (6) detectors that required a potential of 100 shots each to go through! So we thought if we could run more than 1 detector in each car it would be to our benefit. Unfortunately, it did not work out! The M3's performance in both cars were so irradic we felt compelled to redo some of the test while running them SOLO. The results were dramatically different indicating that the windshield mounts were making the M3s drowsy! So we continued with a complete retest of both M3s in factory mode.

From this point forward, we tested only one detector at a time in each of the test vehicles. With this setback, we decided to run a detector up to the point were it achieved 5 of 5 detections within a time frame and then halt the test on that band on that detector. As you will see though, if car one was still testing, car two continued to record results. This is why some detectors continued to record results even after achieving the required 5 of 5 detections. In hind sight that was ok.........you'll see that there was an odd ball miss here and there! There were a few assumed results for which you will not see an actual result recorded as well. The STiR for instance was not tested below 400ms on K-Band with RDR off as it missed 5 of 5 shots at 400-500ms and RDR appeared to have NO effect on K-Band.

Lastly.......but perhaps most importantly! We paused a minimum of 10 seconds or more between each Radar Shot!!! This was to ensure that no detector was "parked" on a frequency after making it's initial alert. Too many tests have posssibly yielded corrupt results by not taking this into consideration.



So I'll get out of your way now and CJ can put up the actual report!!! RIPTIDE will follow up with the video's of our Real Deal moving QT tests. These were run on only the V1, 9500ci and STiR in the modes we were most interested in. The results line up very well with what we saw in the detailed stationary testing.

And..........finally.........after Riptide's post I'll plug in the last piece.......the quick range test we performed on each detector on both K & Ka bands!

NOTE: ALL tests performed with X-Band programmed OFF on every detector! So factory was not technically factory on the charts. X-Band was turned OFF.

Please refrain from replying to this thread until the other guys get a chance to plug their piece in!

Thanks........and enjoy!!!!

Last edited by Nine_c1; May 21st, 2010 at 11:16 PM.
  #2  
Old May 21st, 2010
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CJR238 CJR238 is offline
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We know your fast! But how fast is your Rd? We tested several of today’s top detectors to find out if a Radar gun can slip in under YOUR Radar!

What we found was that all the detectors in this test could be beat in their factory settings on one radar band or another. However, there were a couple with programming options that made them a bit faster. We also discovered that the windshield mounts can indeed make your M3 remote drowsy! That little discovery cost us an hour of re-testing, but we learned a valuable lesson. We’ve included a comparison of the 9500ci’s performance running it with, then without a V1 perched on the windshield for your consideration.

Our results show that most detectors achieved consistent detections within 1 second of transmission time on either band, but only two completed a band sequence without a miss.


Note: All shots taken were timed with a digital sports timer and spaced >10 seconds apart to ensure the detectors were not parked on the frequency under test. I'm sure nine_c1's finger was prity tired by the end of the day.

Test Equipment:
KGE Golden Eagle Radar
35.5 Ka-Band Antenna
24.150 K-Band Antenna

RD's tested: 9500ix (newly updated with TSR), 9500ci (newest software), V1 3.872 (March 10), STi-R, RedLine & 8500 (recent referb).


Testing performed by: CJR238, RIPTIDE and NINE_C1


May 16th 2010



-

-


Comparison of the 9500ci’s performance running it with, then without a V1.


My summary, observations, and opinion:

Programing modes that effect Q/T-All the detectors in this test could be beat in their factory settings on one radar band or another. There were a couple with programming options that made them have much better at QT response (V1 & SRi-R), however it will/can on some units diminish there stability and produce more random false alerts.

The scan rate seems to be the limitation for picking up Q/T shots. You will notice any of the Escorts can pick up Q/T shots down to 150-300ms if they just so happen to be scanning that frequency at the moment (9500ix for example).
The strongest evidence of this is the STi-R with 2/5/8 band seg and RDR off was the only unit that didn't miss a single KA Q/T, Manley because it didn't have to scan all of KA band. Now this would be a great feature to add on a USB updatable RD.

Moving Q/T-Though technically there isn't a large significant increase in the ability to pick up Q/T when moving, this does add another factor of the LEO actually acquiring your speed while Q/T a moving vehicle. Many of the QT shots while moving didn't register speed which would give the RD a better chance of picking up multiple Q/T shots in a real scenario.

Interfearance on M3's-All the great videos done with an M3 platform RD and another RD (like the V1) running at the same time absolutely effects performance. Specifically Q/T performance as demonstrated in the above test sheet.
Though it doesn't appear the M3 affects another RD running at the same time the other RD does effect the M3. To what extent i hope to be testing further.

Long range C/O tests- Test course had 2 bends in the road with buildings blocking some of the radar signal till the last curve. All RD's preformed similarity except for a few exceptions. The STi-R with RDR and band segmentation 2/5/8 and RDR off had almost 1/10mi advantage on KA band. The 9500ci had a over a 1/10mi advantage on K band. The V1, 9500ix then followed by the 8500 & Redline all alerted within a couple hundred feet of each other on KA. Riptide will post the videos and details below.

-Some personal moments that i wanted to share:

-The realization that my V1 was interfering with my Q/T response of my 9500ci and possibly sensitivity as well. Ive had my V1 turned off since this Sundays testing, however if i can confirm it only effects Q/T response i may use them both simultaneously again. The 9500ci is just so sensitive even some minor interference is hard to notice.

-I attempted to get as many moving Q/T shots as i could with my 9500ci do to the limited time. In both instances my ci alerted to 1 of 3 and 1 of 5 all in factory settings moving. Though not great, if i compare it to the V1 in factory settings moving (V1 got 0 of 5) the ci did prity well.
Another interesting moment was when my 9500ix alerted to a stationary QT shot that was 150-200ms. Totally random.

-And lastly, but not leastley, it was great testing and meeting such great guys, RIPTIDE and NINE_C1. We will do it again soon when all your RD's are up and running again. Nine_c1 with his strict testing parameters and detailed spread sheets, Riptide with his great computer skills & video editing really made us a great team.
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To embrace technology is not to blindly accept it. We must always question and test technology but never be afraid to use it.


Max, RedLine, 9500ci, 9500ix, 9500I x2, 8500, X50 Black, PRO300, SmartRadar, V1, Passport.

My 9500I/ix review and TrueLock info:
http://escortradarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96

My install:
http://www.rdforum.org/showthread.php?t=37598

http://escortradarforum.com/forums/s...1131#post11131

Last edited by CJR238; May 22nd, 2010 at 02:14 AM. Reason: Edit for spelling. Thank you AirMoore, :)
  #3  
Old May 21st, 2010
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QT Testing Vid with PNP from Target Car
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6oVjMpc6yY


Overall it was a very worthwhile day of testing and I learned some interesting things.
Here they are in no particular order:

1. Band segmentation and RDR-off are extremely powerful features. I think everyone suspected this before but not to this degree. We could not get the STi-R to miss a 35.5 QT pull! It beat the mighty V1 with Ka band reactivity.

2. My STi-R was messed up on K band. This is something I had been suspecting for awhile and when its K band results were questionable in this test I initially thought it was due to a programming difference in how the Bel version handles K band filtering. I proved myself wrong when I tested my STI-R and radarrob's STI-R at the same time(both 2/5/8 RDR off). Quick pulls off his MPH Z35 resulted in his detector going nuts while mine was silent. My Bel will be taking a trip back to the factory on Monday after the east coast jammer meet. When I get it back Ill meet up with nine_c1 at some point to run the test again on K band. However based on what I did with radarrob band seg and RDR make a huge difference on K band as well.

3. Many people think the lower reactivity of the belscorts is done on purpose as part of its filtering. It may be due to filtering but I no longer thing the lower reactivity is actually part of the filtering. If that were the case then reactivity wouldnít go through the roof when Ka band was disabled completely like in nine_c1s redline QT test vids.

4. A windshield mount does interfere with an M3 remote. Everyone (including myself) just kind of assumed it wouldn't but clearly the 9500CI was being crippled by the V1 in its initial test. In addition remember when we ran the test with the STI-R in 2/5/8 RDR-off and it didn't miss a single 35.5 QT? (how could I let you forget) Well afterwards I powered up my 8500 to run alongside the STI-R and asked nine_c1 to hit me again with the Ka. Guess what, we got it to miss a few of them in the sub 200ms range. After thinking about this assuming my RD come back from Escort and is up to snuff on K band like radarrob's I see no reason anymore to run another detector like the V1 alongside it. I mean the arrows seem cool yes but why have the most reactive detector in the world on Ka band and then cripple it. (unless your paranoid about one dying or missing an out of tune gun) Remember when The Veil Guy posted the video about retiring his V1 due to the STi-R? The only thing that may not interfere (there will be tests) would be running a Redline so one could have Spec and Threat modes. I may look into this.

5. The M4 did much better than I expected and I think I developed an unnecessary negative attitude towards it after reading alot on the forum. I would feel very well protected with a 9500ix and if that bill passes allowing PA local police to use radar I may invest in one. (that is if I havenít bought a 9500CI or thereís no RedlineIX by then)

6. Increased reactivity also increases range. Compare the 35.5 ranges of the 9500CI to the STi-R and youíll see what Iím talking about.

6. Testing the detectors was not as boring as I thought it was going to be.

7. CJR238 and nine_c1 are cool dudes.

8. Belscort needs to take a second look at segmentation and RDR-off. PLEASE CONSIDER BRINGING THESE BACK!

Last edited by CJR238; March 25th, 2011 at 01:49 PM.
  #4  
Old May 21st, 2010
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Nine_c1 Nine_c1 is offline
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Range Test Results

Here is part III of the testing that CJR238, RIPTIDE and myself ran this past Sunday.

We took the (6) detectors used in the Radar Detector Reaction Time tests and put them up against Constant On K & Ka band on the same course we used for the moving QT tests.

As far as a trap goes.......this one was wicked!

You will see the course description at the bottom of the chart, but also know, there was a building sitting in the corner of that bend that helped block any signal trying to sneak through!

As far as a range test goes, this is not the best in my opinion due to the difficulty of the course. You won't see a whole lot of difference between detectors, and all but two are clumped closely together. Due justice would have had us run more than one pass and average the results. But hey, how many chances do you get against that LEO in the median?



Here is the rather lengthy link to the overhead satelite view of the course. It's marked with the positions alerted to during the Ka band portion of the test.

http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=41....e=D&rtop=0~0~0~


To my HUGE disappointment, my RedLine had the dubious honor of being the ONLY detector to get beat all day with a Constant On signal!!! Yes.......the test car cleared the corner, and at .24 miles, I had a speed reading on the Radar at the exact moment the RedLine alerted! This was the only detector that got a 2nd chance pass and........again, it sync'd it's alert with the speed display on the KGE!

Oh the shame! I suspect I am at fault for this one however. Since that "Signal Overdrive" test I did a few weeks back, the RedLine has not been itself. I fear that putting a Radar Gun antenna nose to nose with the RedLine (5 inches actually) and shooting it several times was perhaps NOT the best idea I've had. It certainly was good for showing what happens when you overdrive the input on your RD.......but it also apparently gave my bloodhound a cold!

Those unbelievable long range detections have been absent the last few weeks but I was explaining it away as new foliage coming in. In any case, this test was conclusive evidence I have a problem. So I sent it in to have Doctor Escort look at it. I'll update you all with the prognosis when I get it back.

__________________________________________________ ____

I want to Thank CJR238 and RIPTIDE for putting on such a great Test! It was a ton of fun and hard work.......but we learned alot together. Thats the great thing about being a member of this forum.........you meet and talk to wonderful people and these guys are the best!!!

Last edited by Nine_c1; May 21st, 2010 at 09:25 PM.
  #5  
Old May 21st, 2010
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EscortRadar EscortRadar is offline
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A very nice presentation!

I would only like to note that you will not notice any interference between two M3 detectors operating in the same vehicle (eg a RedLine and a 9500ci, or 2 RedLines). Maybe if you put them on top or directly next to each other, but I doubt even then It looks like you have the resources to test this yourselves though so don't take my word for it.
  #6  
Old May 21st, 2010
RipeTomatoes RipeTomatoes is offline
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Thumbs up

Good job guys.
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Old May 21st, 2010
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Great testing looks like alot of hard work. I think the most interesting finding to me was a dashmount RD had such a negative effect on the performance of a remote mount RD. And I think we all knew band segmentation was going to be a big win.
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  #8  
Old May 21st, 2010
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Put Ka band segmentation and RDR in every M3. Problem solved. Will Escort do it? HELL NO! They never listen to us! We've been asking for a rampup fix for the 9500ci since it was released, two freaking years ago, and still nothing.
  #9  
Old May 21st, 2010
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Nine_c1 Nine_c1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EscortRadar View Post
A very nice presentation!

I would only like to note that you will not notice any interference between two M3 detectors operating in the same vehicle (eg a RedLine and a 9500ci, or 2 RedLines). Maybe if you put them on top or directly next to each other, but I doubt even then It looks like you have the resources to test this yourselves though so don't take my word for it.
Thank You EscortRadar!

You bent over backwards to accomodate our request to post the results over here!

Thanks for the hospitality!
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Old May 21st, 2010
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jmccam jmccam is offline
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Absolutely outstanding work, gentleman! Thank you for your time and energy to do this for us.

Makes you think. Now what to run on my trip to TX?!
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