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  #11  
Old September 21st, 2009
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Originally Posted by TSi+WRX View Post
Given sufficient spacing - as would be nearly unavoidable on a frontal profile as large as the 300's - the all-three-heads forward setup should render more protection
Interesting choice of words, and it would seem that even you are not 100% convinced of what would actually happen as a end result (otherwise you would have said "would" instead of "should"). The manufacture of this product, Escort, does not recommend using the rear head up front. Until I see proof positive that they are completely wrong, I still have enough doubt to where I cannot recommend that anyone try this approach.

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However, to be safe, it would be recommended that the OP have his setup properly tested, to insure that no cross-talk is seen.
I absolutely agree with this. In-fact even if they don't use the rear head up front they should still get their setup tested
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  #12  
Old September 22nd, 2009
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Originally Posted by MyEscort8MyV1 View Post
Interesting choice of words, and it would seem that even you are not 100% convinced of what would actually happen as a end result (otherwise you would have said "would" instead of "should"). The manufacture of this product, Escort, does not recommend using the rear head up front. Until I see proof positive that they are completely wrong, I still have enough doubt to where I cannot recommend that anyone try this approach.
^ Exactly , I'm not one to hide - it's definitely a case where there's, as yet, no conclusive evidence: however, we're getting there, I think.

Part of the problem is that no-one has yet tested whether or not the proximity issue would come to bear on the ZR3, set up as "all-forward," too. Despite all the years of knowing that all three pointing forward seems to better the ZR3's performance, no-one thought to do such testing.

With the ZR4, all the data that we currently have from the community is that set up as "all forward" will increase performance/protection (i.e. lower PT), given enough "space" between the heads - but there are cautionary points (i.e. Roy's tale, as well as that of, more specifically, 8freerunner8's) that simply cannot be ignored.

And that's my reasoning, too, for why the setup needs to be tested, first-hand.

While given what we know of the physical construct of these devices (not only of the ZR3/4 specifically, but also of the LI, Blinder, and other jammers - and with many who have run multiple-jammer setups for many years, and have published their setup/data on RD.net for all to discuss), we can make a good guess as to what the problem is and where the problem lies, the truth of the matter is that without actual testing, on the specific vehicle, there's just no way to be certain.

As for Escort's "by the line recommendations?"

I'm already discounting that.

Why?

First, they categorically refused to acknowledge that such a setup would benefit the user, at the outset, which was proven false.

Now, they're only saying that it's not a specific recommendation, but fail to provide absolute data or instructions/recommendations to help the end-users.

To me, that's simply sticking by the company line - and that's OK, for the company and its representatives.

But it's definitely not something that we should just take at face-value, particularly as evidence to the contrary continues to mount.
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  #13  
Old September 22nd, 2009
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Originally Posted by TSi+WRX View Post
Part of the problem is that no-one has yet tested whether or not the proximity issue would come to bear on the ZR3
Speaking of proximity, I'm wondering if there would be any interferance with the ZR4 and the new Blinders. I recently saw a M27 (not the M47) do JTG with a F-150 pickup truck That vehicle is almost as big as the 300 and I was amazed that just two heads covered the entire front of the vehicle, no problems at all.

Also, not to get off on a tangent but just a quick update: in another thread we were both talking about if the GPS antenna was waterproof. According to Mem-Tek it is, so good news
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  #14  
Old September 22nd, 2009
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Originally Posted by MyEscort8MyV1 View Post
Speaking of proximity, I'm wondering if there would be any interferance with the ZR4 and the new Blinders. I recently saw a M27 (not the M47) do JTG with a F-150 pickup truck That vehicle is almost as big as the 300 and I was amazed that just two heads covered the entire front of the vehicle, no problems at all.
There could very well be cross-talk - again, it would depend highly on the setup, but just by looking at the physical construct of the heads (with the Blinders also using IR-transparent casing) proximity could very well trigger-off an issue, if emitted light from one unit is "seen" by the other: causing the usual miscue.

This is a problem that's not, per-se, inherent to any one or genre of jammers, but rather, can be *induced* of any - and is highly dependent on the actual setup of the heads.

As for the M27 - yes, that's very impressive: but remember, placement/reception is a critical component of jammer setup. The ability of these individual hobbyists to work towards optimizing their setups is what should be kept in-mind as being the true "gold standard" in how each person pursues their own unique jammer setup.

Quote:
Also, not to get off on a tangent but just a quick update: in another thread we were both talking about if the GPS antenna was waterproof. According to Mem-Tek it is, so good news
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- Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges

Me:05 Legacy 2.5GT Ltd. sedan
LI Rev2.8/Ver7.03, quad 8.0A-F w/Slim 8.5-R
LPP Ver8.3/Rev10.6.4, 2xF/1xR
9500i, Red (4307) w/ZR3
Cheetah GPS-Mirror
VEIL G4
CR8APL8s, w/LaserShield-F

Wifey:09 Forester XT
LI Rev2.9/Ver7.08 dual 8.5-F
8500x50 (S7 Rev5)
LaserShield-F

Last edited by TSi+WRX; September 22nd, 2009 at 04:35 PM.
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  #15  
Old September 22nd, 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TSi+WRX View Post
As for the M27 - yes, that's very impressive: but remember, placement/reception is a critical component of jammer setup.
I think with each new generation of jammers this is less and less important. I also saw an Accord with the new Blinders and they mounted them very low, yet the entire front of the car was covered. If I would have known this I would have bought the M27 instead of the M47 for the front, as I already have the ZR4's from the 9500ci. As you mentioned, now I just need to check for cross talk. Fingers crossed
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  #16  
Old September 23rd, 2009
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Originally Posted by MyEscort8MyV1 View Post
I think with each new generation of jammers this is less and less important.
Agreed - but I wonder if an absolute can be achieved, given true falsing concerns.....

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If I would have known this I would have bought the M27 instead of the M47 for the front, as I already have the ZR4's from the 9500ci. As you mentioned, now I just need to check for cross talk. Fingers crossed
Get those other heads out back?

Definitely watch-out for the cross-talk...both the Mx7 and the ZR4 seem to be exceptional receivers, and that's typically the problem.
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- Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges

Me:05 Legacy 2.5GT Ltd. sedan
LI Rev2.8/Ver7.03, quad 8.0A-F w/Slim 8.5-R
LPP Ver8.3/Rev10.6.4, 2xF/1xR
9500i, Red (4307) w/ZR3
Cheetah GPS-Mirror
VEIL G4
CR8APL8s, w/LaserShield-F

Wifey:09 Forester XT
LI Rev2.9/Ver7.08 dual 8.5-F
8500x50 (S7 Rev5)
LaserShield-F
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  #17  
Old September 23rd, 2009
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Originally Posted by TSi+WRX View Post
Agreed - but I wonder if an absolute can be achieved, given true falsing concerns.....
There are no standards in the industry so each company handles design as they wish. As long as this is the case there will always be some issues with jammers working with other jammers.

Quote:
Get those other heads out back?
Already have a M27 and the 9500ci (plate) for the rear

However Veil can't be used legally in the rear so I may need at least one more head... unfortunately the Mx7 heads are next to impossible to find for sale separately
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  #18  
Old September 23rd, 2009
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Originally Posted by MyEscort8MyV1 View Post
There are no standards in the industry so each company handles design as they wish. As long as this is the case there will always be some issues with jammers working with other jammers.
That's for-sure.

But I think you mistook what I meant - or I was unclear.

What I meant was whether or not if the absolute of "being able to set up the jammer heads (of a unique device, not in conjunction with others) any which way you want it" - due to improvements in detection capability - will be reached, due to falsing (i.e. from bright ambient lighting) concerns.

From the ZR3/4 and the V1, we've seen, for now, that LASER receiver falsing and sensitivity seems to go hand-in-hand.

But hopefully, improvements will continue to cut this ratio - as well as allow for ever more degrees of freedom, in terms of device setup!
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- Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges

Me:05 Legacy 2.5GT Ltd. sedan
LI Rev2.8/Ver7.03, quad 8.0A-F w/Slim 8.5-R
LPP Ver8.3/Rev10.6.4, 2xF/1xR
9500i, Red (4307) w/ZR3
Cheetah GPS-Mirror
VEIL G4
CR8APL8s, w/LaserShield-F

Wifey:09 Forester XT
LI Rev2.9/Ver7.08 dual 8.5-F
8500x50 (S7 Rev5)
LaserShield-F
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  #19  
Old September 23rd, 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TSi+WRX View Post
From the ZR3/4 and the V1, we've seen, for now, that LASER receiver falsing and sensitivity seems to go hand-in-hand.
Thanks for the clarification

Since the military has no problems (any longer) with LIDAR in this area, I can only assume that it's a matter of trickle down, and technology just needs to catch up with consumer products. Although having said that, they have recently switched to a different type of LIDAR and that may be why
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  #20  
Old September 24th, 2009
TSi+WRX TSi+WRX is offline
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^ I sure hope it trickles down fast, then!
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- Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges

Me:05 Legacy 2.5GT Ltd. sedan
LI Rev2.8/Ver7.03, quad 8.0A-F w/Slim 8.5-R
LPP Ver8.3/Rev10.6.4, 2xF/1xR
9500i, Red (4307) w/ZR3
Cheetah GPS-Mirror
VEIL G4
CR8APL8s, w/LaserShield-F

Wifey:09 Forester XT
LI Rev2.9/Ver7.08 dual 8.5-F
8500x50 (S7 Rev5)
LaserShield-F
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