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  #1  
Old September 17th, 2009
Manny Manny is offline
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Default ZR4 and Chysler 300

Hey all,

I recieved 2 tickets with 30 days of each other and decided it was time to pick something up. I purchased a 9500Ix which has saved me twice. And I just purchased a ZR4.

I am wondering where the best place would be to put the front detectors. Also, from what I read, mounting them behind the mesh looks like it might be an issue.

Thank you for your help in advance.

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  #2  
Old September 18th, 2009
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EscortRadar EscortRadar is offline
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Thanks for joining the Escort Radar forum Manny and glad to hear that the 9500ix is working well for you!

I recommend installing the front shifters in the upper vent openings next to your foglights (see attached picture) in front of the mesh or remove the mesh.

DO NOT install them behind the mesh. Doing so will render the shifters useless. The shifters need as clear of a line of sight as possible. Importantly, be sure that they are mounted level (with the car on level ground), squared so that they are both aiming as perfectly straight ahead as possible, and note that there is a "this side up" for each shifter.

With the ZR4 interfaced with the 9500ix, using the included ZR4 interface cable which replaces the 9500ix power cord, you will not need to install the display controlle. The ZR4 remote mute button will also perform all the functions of the 9500ix mute button. Double tapping the mute button while the shifters are shifting a laser signal will temporarily disable the shifters allowing a speed reading to be taken and not drawing too much attention to yourself. After about a minute the shifters will re-activate and notify you that they are back into shifting mode.

Feel free to post any more questions that you have.
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  #3  
Old September 18th, 2009
TSi+WRX TSi+WRX is offline
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I'd reinforce the above mounting/setup, and go with the rear head mounted center-mass, directly under where your shaved badge/marking is, on your front grill.

---

If you're able to get testing done by fellow hobbyists/enthusiasts, I'd highly recommend that you do so - I honestly don't know if the ZR4 will be sufficient protection, given your vehicle's extensive, and unfavorable, frontal LIDAR profile.

Check on RadarDetector.net .... check either the "Local/Regional" sub-Forum, or check the "Laser Jammers" sub-Forum, and look for the independent hobbyists directory.
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- Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges

Me:05 Legacy 2.5GT Ltd. sedan
LI Rev2.8/Ver7.03, quad 8.0A-F w/Slim 8.5-R
LPP Ver8.3/Rev10.6.4, 2xF/1xR
9500i, Red (4307) w/ZR3
Cheetah GPS-Mirror
VEIL G4
CR8APL8s, w/LaserShield-F

Wifey:09 Forester XT
LI Rev2.9/Ver7.08 dual 8.5-F
8500x50 (S7 Rev5)
LaserShield-F
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  #4  
Old September 18th, 2009
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Pointman Pointman is offline
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As a driver who is VERY interested in not getting any laser tickets I've taken my vehicle in a specific direction by removing the fog lights completely and installing factory "fog delete" panels in their place. These panel are a flat plastic that is painted to match my trim and doesn't reflect any IR light back to the LIDAR guns. This could work very well on your vehicle as well. By only having headlights to target, you vastly reduce your vehicles LIDAR target cross section and make it much harder for the officer to get a reading on you.

If you do remove the fog lights, I would recommend isntalling your ZR4 laser jammers in upper portion of your main grill in front of the mesh on opposing sides. See attached picture for an idea. GREEN -> Shifters
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Last edited by Pointman; September 18th, 2009 at 12:34 PM.
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  #5  
Old September 18th, 2009
Manny Manny is offline
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Thank you guys for the quick responses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EscortRadar View Post
I recommend installing the front shifters in the upper vent openings next to your foglights (see attached picture) in front of the mesh or remove the mesh.

DO NOT install them behind the mesh.
I figured the mesh would be an issue. If I install the shifters that low, wont that leave the my head lights unprotected?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TSi+WRX View Post
I'd reinforce the above mounting/setup, and go with the rear head mounted center-mass, directly under where your shaved badge/marking is, on your front grill.
When you say rear mounted center-mass are you refering to the rear laser shifter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointman View Post

If you do remove the fog lights, I would recommend isntalling your ZR4 laser jammers in upper portion of your main grill in front of the mesh on opposing sides. See attached picture for an idea. GREEN -> Shifters
The 300's have a huge front making them an easy target. But I like my fogs. Plus like I said earlier, I need to put my plates on before I get ticketed.

Again, thanks for the quick repsonses.
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  #6  
Old September 18th, 2009
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They should still protect you mounted near the foglights. Mine are mounted in a similar position relative to my large headlight assembly and they perform perfectly for me. I have a front plate without any covering. If you have a front plate then chances are that will be the first laser target. With the shifters mounted equally away from the plate and the headlights you have a better chance at protecting both of these areas.

I believe TSi+WRX's recommendation was to mount the rear laser shifter up front instead of in the rear. Some have had good results with this set up but we do not specifically recommend it.

Although you do have a large front, your grill not being chrome is a positive.
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  #7  
Old September 18th, 2009
Manny Manny is offline
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Thanks again for your help
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Old September 18th, 2009
TSi+WRX TSi+WRX is offline
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RE: bringing, to the front of the vehicle, the rear ZR4 head -
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny View Post
When you say rear mounted center-mass are you refering to the rear laser shifter?
To which EscortRadar wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by EscortRadar View Post
I believe TSi+WRX's recommendation was to mount the rear laser shifter up front instead of in the rear. Some have had good results with this set up but we do not specifically recommend it.
Yes, that is my recommendation - to put your rear laser head on the front of the vehicle, particularly as, in terms of rear protection, the ZR4 will likely only give acceptable coverage when the rear plate (specifically, where its sole rear head is located) is targeted.

Go to RadarDetector.net, and search up ELVATO and Cbr's early testing videos of the ZR4 (they were among the first true independent hobbyists to have tested this system), you'll get a first-hand look at how the rear head performs.

And as to why I recommend bringing it up front, outside of that reason above?

http://escortradarforum.com/forums/s...ight=rear+head

and

http://escortradarforum.com/forums/s...ht=cfl*&page=8 - start with post #73, and keep reading 'till the thread's (current) end.

Given how widely spaced the initially proposed install of the front heads will be, center mass, particularly with the highly "retro-reflective" issue plate there, may be a point-weakness.


-----


Quote:
Originally Posted by EscortRadar View Post
They should still protect you mounted near the foglights. Mine are mounted in a similar position relative to my large headlight assembly and they perform perfectly for me.
* Emphasis added.

Although, academically, I also often draw "similar vehicle" analogies, it stands to caution that in the real-world, whether it be with strict/rigorous testing scenarios or in terms of a live encounter, there can exist many variables which may make "similar" setups perform in drastically different ways.

That "should" should really be highlighted, as "YMMV" really applies, in this case.

Quote:
Although you do have a large front, your grill not being chrome is a positive.
This is largely an unknown -

Although it is commonly thought of that "chrome" or other such shiny trim pieces should prove detrimental, there have been many more "in-depth" pursuits of this particular bit of headache for us countermeasures enthusiasts.

Remember the 2008 test-bed vehicle for the GOL LIDAR shootout?

MEM-TEK had this to say:

http://www.radardetector.net/forums/432612-post6.html

Also, look at various posts by VEIL Guy, who, undeniably, is an expert of experts, in this area.

He's also quick to point out that such "chrome trimmed" areas are not all created the same, on all vehicles, and a lot of this has to do with specific contours of the parts concerned.

Finally, have a look-see at VEIL Guy's IR video series, available on his YouTube channel (also, REF: http://www.radardetector.net/forums/...r-veil-g4.html).

Now, cross-reference this post of mine:

http://www.radardetector.net/forums/443201-post27.html

Look at the IR-reflective "hot-spots," as a simple function of the CONTOUR of the car.

As VEIL Guy likes to say, sometimes, what IR "sees" is not necessarily what we "see."
__________________
- Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges

Me:05 Legacy 2.5GT Ltd. sedan
LI Rev2.8/Ver7.03, quad 8.0A-F w/Slim 8.5-R
LPP Ver8.3/Rev10.6.4, 2xF/1xR
9500i, Red (4307) w/ZR3
Cheetah GPS-Mirror
VEIL G4
CR8APL8s, w/LaserShield-F

Wifey:09 Forester XT
LI Rev2.9/Ver7.08 dual 8.5-F
8500x50 (S7 Rev5)
LaserShield-F
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  #9  
Old September 18th, 2009
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MyEscort8MyV1 MyEscort8MyV1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny View Post
If I install the shifters that low, wont that leave the my head lights unprotected?
Not when you put Veil on them

Your car is unfortunately one of the hardest cars to protect without doing some 'customizing'. I would first get that Veil on both your headlights AND your fog-lights. I also wouldn't feel completely protected without 4 jammer heads on that particular car, BUT if you mount two heads toward the middle of your grill you should get at least 85% protection. Whatever you decide to do MAKE SURE you get your setup tested BEFORE you settle on a mounting location. I would start with mounting them toward the middle of the grill because the first place that the LEO will most likely shoot (especially a 300) is going to be in the front license plate area, so you need to protect that as well as the headlights. Once you get the Veil on the lights you can move the shifters further away from them, and start protecting the other areas of the car. Fortunately the ZR4 shifters are fairly thin and you should be able to mount them in front of the mesh without them over hanging too much. I am personally not sold on moving the rear head up front. I've seen reports that say that this can possibly cause issues, and of course the obvious reason is that then you'll have nothing protecting the rear of the car.
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  #10  
Old September 21st, 2009
TSi+WRX TSi+WRX is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyEscort8MyV1 View Post
I am personally not sold on moving the rear head up front. I've seen reports that say that this can possibly cause issues, and of course the obvious reason is that then you'll have nothing protecting the rear of the car.
^ True, there are such reports - but none provided the data that CFL and the other hobbyists have, all of which suggests otherwise.

So far, such reports include:

RadarRoy, whose recommendation, as viewed in his video Blog, was given from official statements from an Escort representative. After many questioned this statement, he then tried the three-heads-front setup on his wife's minivan, which saw an *increase* in PT distance (i.e. "worse" performance), versus, specifically, the Stalker LZ-1.

8freerunner8, who chose to test an unconventional all-three-heads-facing-rear setup on his current-generation BMW 3-series sedan. The jamming performance was much worse than expected, which led him to remove the rear head, and, instead, mount the two front heads in a "rear facing" manner, one towards each side of his rear plate recess.

Although no further details were given of Roy's setup, my suspicion for the reason why 8freerunner8's setup failed so badly is because of the absolute proximity of the jammer heads in his specialized rear setup, which put the heads so close together, that, with their IR-transparent physical construct (front heads, top-of-casing) as well as the specialized rear receptive setup (detailed by MEM-TEK, here: http://escortradarforum.com/forums/s...minivan&page=6), caused one or the other heads to miscue to the output of the other, and thus created destructive interference.

Given sufficient spacing - as would be nearly unavoidable on a frontal profile as large as the 300's - the all-three-heads forward setup should render more protection, not less, based on currently testing data.

However, to be safe, it would be recommended that the OP have his setup properly tested, to insure that no cross-talk is seen.
__________________
- Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges

Me:05 Legacy 2.5GT Ltd. sedan
LI Rev2.8/Ver7.03, quad 8.0A-F w/Slim 8.5-R
LPP Ver8.3/Rev10.6.4, 2xF/1xR
9500i, Red (4307) w/ZR3
Cheetah GPS-Mirror
VEIL G4
CR8APL8s, w/LaserShield-F

Wifey:09 Forester XT
LI Rev2.9/Ver7.08 dual 8.5-F
8500x50 (S7 Rev5)
LaserShield-F
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