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  #1  
Old July 15th, 2019
billvp billvp is offline
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Default Constant k band pickup

I recently purchased a 2013 mercedes sl63. My 360 worked fine on the previous car.

My max360 now will often pick up a k band reading, showing from the front via arrow, at about half the max reading. It will stay on indefinitely, for maybe 15 minutes at a time and then go away, only to come back again later. This obviously makes the detector almost useless. I tried turning off various options on the car such as blind spot monitoring, crash detecting, and auto cruise control distance, but nothing helped.

Any ideas what do about this?
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  #2  
Old July 15th, 2019
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TBNTX TBNTX is offline
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Perhaps the detector is picking up your car's anti-collision/lane departure signals.
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  #3  
Old July 15th, 2019
billvp billvp is offline
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That's what I was thinking. I turned them 'off' but it's possible I guess that they are still on and it's just the effects & notifications that turned off.

What's weird is that it sometimes goes away.

Assuming they are still on in some way, what do people usually do in such circumstances? Is there a way to have the detector know those are from my car? Or is there a particular detector that works best?
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Old July 15th, 2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billvp View Post
That's what I was thinking. I turned them 'off' but it's possible I guess that they are still on and it's just the effects & notifications that turned off.

What's weird is that it sometimes goes away.

Assuming they are still on in some way, what do people usually do in such circumstances? Is there a way to have the detector know those are from my car? Or is there a particular detector that works best?
I canít speak with any certainty, but perhaps youíre correct. Contact Merceds support and ask them, unless other Mercedes owners on the forum can provide feedback.

Best wishes.
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Countermeasures:

Radar Detectors: Max 360c, Redline EX, Max 360, & others plus Escort Live!
LIDAR Defense: Escort LSP + Veil G4
Phone: Apple iPhone 6s (128 GB) + AT&T
CB: Midland 75-822
HAM: Yaesu FT-7900R, Baofeng UV-5R, UV-3R
Scanner: GRE PSR-500 (Triple-trunking)
GPS: iPhone 6s with GPS Plus and Waze
Dashcam: Escort M1 and Thinkware F750
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  #5  
Old July 16th, 2019
SmoovC SmoovC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billvp View Post
That's what I was thinking. I turned them 'off' but it's possible I guess that they are still on and it's just the effects & notifications that turned off.

What's weird is that it sometimes goes away.

Assuming they are still on in some way, what do people usually do in such circumstances? Is there a way to have the detector know those are from my car? Or is there a particular detector that works best?
Perhaps I can offer some insight based upon my own experiences with the same type of issues when I switched cars. Albeit, the vehicle manufacturer is different; I think the symptoms and possible cure may be the same.

I drive a 2014 Cadillac CTS V Sport Premium, which is equipped with every IVT system available. When I first bought it, I owned a Max 360, and had exactly the same symptoms you are experiencing: constant falses on K band, usually from the front.

I noticed that switching off all safety systems did nothing for me; the systems are still active, and just not alerting the driver or effecting changes in vehicle behavior.

As far as "sometimes going away" I observed this to be speed dependent, as the systems are not active until a particular speed is achieved.

I switched the RD to the Spec FR2 setting to determine what frequencies the car was emitting. This turned out to be 24.07x on K band. I also had my wife drive in front and behind me in her Max 360-equipped car to confirm frequencies from outside of my vehicle. The results were virtually the same.

That's great I thought; now I know what is causing the issue, but how to cure it?

It was right around this time that Escort introduced the Max 360c with band segmentation. In looking throught the Quick Reference Guide, I noticed that I would be able to turn off KN1 (24.050 - 24.110 GHz), which would in theory cure the problem and still leave me protected against a K band threat.

Since I also have in-car wifi, I could also eliminate using Escort Live on my phone with a 360c, and everything would be virtually seamless: start the car and drive off; rather than having to fiddle around with my phone and Live on every drive. This was my biggest gripe about the Max 360; other than the K band falsing.

Long story short, I ordered the 360c, turned off KN1, and life is good! No more K band falsing, and the ease of operation is amazing.

Since my purchase, there has been a few firmware updates that have been aimed at improving IVT rejection; I have not tried turning KN1 back on since those updates.

In summary: determine what frequencies your car is emitting, check out the 360c QRG and see if band segmentation will help; while still leaving you protected. The next step involves making your car faster via vehicle weight reduction, by making your wallet lighter (new 360c).

I hope this information helps.
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  #6  
Old July 25th, 2019
billvp billvp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoovC View Post
Perhaps I can offer some insight based upon my own experiences with the same type of issues when I switched cars. Albeit, the vehicle manufacturer is different; I think the symptoms and possible cure may be the same.

I drive a 2014 Cadillac CTS V Sport Premium, which is equipped with every IVT system available. When I first bought it, I owned a Max 360, and had exactly the same symptoms you are experiencing: constant falses on K band, usually from the front.

I noticed that switching off all safety systems did nothing for me; the systems are still active, and just not alerting the driver or effecting changes in vehicle behavior.

As far as "sometimes going away" I observed this to be speed dependent, as the systems are not active until a particular speed is achieved.

I switched the RD to the Spec FR2 setting to determine what frequencies the car was emitting. This turned out to be 24.07x on K band. I also had my wife drive in front and behind me in her Max 360-equipped car to confirm frequencies from outside of my vehicle. The results were virtually the same.

That's great I thought; now I know what is causing the issue, but how to cure it?

It was right around this time that Escort introduced the Max 360c with band segmentation. In looking throught the Quick Reference Guide, I noticed that I would be able to turn off KN1 (24.050 - 24.110 GHz), which would in theory cure the problem and still leave me protected against a K band threat.

Since I also have in-car wifi, I could also eliminate using Escort Live on my phone with a 360c, and everything would be virtually seamless: start the car and drive off; rather than having to fiddle around with my phone and Live on every drive. This was my biggest gripe about the Max 360; other than the K band falsing.

Long story short, I ordered the 360c, turned off KN1, and life is good! No more K band falsing, and the ease of operation is amazing.

Since my purchase, there has been a few firmware updates that have been aimed at improving IVT rejection; I have not tried turning KN1 back on since those updates.

In summary: determine what frequencies your car is emitting, check out the 360c QRG and see if band segmentation will help; while still leaving you protected. The next step involves making your car faster via vehicle weight reduction, by making your wallet lighter (new 360c).

I hope this information helps.
My falses are also mainly 24.07X (24.077). I'll consider picking up the 360c. thanks

Last edited by billvp; July 26th, 2019 at 02:45 AM.
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  #7  
Old July 26th, 2019
06142020 06142020 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoovC View Post
It was right around this time that Escort introduced the Max 360c with band segmentation. In looking throught the Quick Reference Guide, I noticed that I would be able to turn off KN1 (24.050 - 24.110 GHz), which would in theory cure the problem and still leave me protected against a K band threat.
K Band is quite narrow (24.050-24.250 GHz, or 200 MHz total) compared to Ka band (33.400-36.000 GHz, or 2600 MHz total), and police K band can operate anywhere within this range. Most K band guns are centered at 24.150 or 24.125 GHz, with a tolerance of +/- 100 MHz.

Turning off KN1 essentially blinds your detector to 30% of K band, so there is certainly some risk of missing legit K band threats. Depending on how much K band is used in your area you may decide the tradeoff is worth it to eliminate the falses, but don't count on it to protect you against every officer running K band.

BTW, I have certainly seen K band falses in the 24.070 GHz range from Cadillacs, but never from Mercedes. Front arrow does suggest something like active cruise control or collision avoidance systems, but as far as I know all Mercedes radar systems since at least the early 2000s have operated on W band (77 GHz) due to the superior resolution compared to K band radar, and none of the harmonics from W band should impact radar detectors.

Please let us know if you figure out what is causing the false!
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  #8  
Old July 26th, 2019
billvp billvp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 06142020 View Post
K Band is quite narrow (24.050-24.250 GHz, or 200 MHz total) compared to Ka band (33.400-36.000 GHz, or 2600 MHz total), and police K band can operate anywhere within this range. Most K band guns are centered at 24.150 or 24.125 GHz, with a tolerance of +/- 100 MHz.

Turning off KN1 essentially blinds your detector to 30% of K band, so there is certainly some risk of missing legit K band threats. Depending on how much K band is used in your area you may decide the tradeoff is worth it to eliminate the falses, but don't count on it to protect you against every officer running K band.

BTW, I have certainly seen K band falses in the 24.070 GHz range from Cadillacs, but never from Mercedes. Front arrow does suggest something like active cruise control or collision avoidance systems, but as far as I know all Mercedes radar systems since at least the early 2000s have operated on W band (77 GHz) due to the superior resolution compared to K band radar, and none of the harmonics from W band should impact radar detectors.

Please let us know if you figure out what is causing the false!
I don't think I have ever picked up a K-band false from a Mercedes on the road (aside from my own, now). I have two max360s (one in the wife's car), and I swapped them out for each other just to check that something wasn't wrong with the one detector, but they are both doing it.

I have also read that police operate at 24.150 or 24.125 GHz. Do you have verification for that wide of a tolerance in radar guns in use? That's the whole spectrum noted as within acceptable tolerance.

Last edited by billvp; July 26th, 2019 at 02:56 AM.
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  #9  
Old July 26th, 2019
06142020 06142020 is offline
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Originally Posted by billvp View Post
I have also read that police operate at 24.150 or 24.125 GHz. Do you have verification for that wide of a tolerance in radar guns in use? That's the whole spectrum noted as within acceptable tolerance.
Yes, check any manual for a police radar gun and it will show a tolerance of +/-100MHz in the operating frequency.
For example, here is the spec sheet for the Kustom Raptor RP-1: https://kustomsignals.com/documents_...es_6-12-19.pdf

Personally I've seen verified K band in use anywhere from 24.062 to 24.212 GHz. Running either K narrow or any K segments off certainly would've burned me on more than one occasion.

Again, it's a tradeoff between reduced falses and the risk of missing some legit K band threats. It's up to you to decide whether it's worth it, but understand there is risk involved.
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  #10  
Old July 26th, 2019
SmoovC SmoovC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 06142020 View Post
K Band is quite narrow (24.050-24.250 GHz, or 200 MHz total) compared to Ka band (33.400-36.000 GHz, or 2600 MHz total), and police K band can operate anywhere within this range. Most K band guns are centered at 24.150 or 24.125 GHz, with a tolerance of +/- 100 MHz.

Turning off KN1 essentially blinds your detector to 30% of K band, so there is certainly some risk of missing legit K band threats. Depending on how much K band is used in your area you may decide the tradeoff is worth it to eliminate the falses, but don't count on it to protect you against every officer running K band.

BTW, I have certainly seen K band falses in the 24.070 GHz range from Cadillacs, but never from Mercedes. Front arrow does suggest something like active cruise control or collision avoidance systems, but as far as I know all Mercedes radar systems since at least the early 2000s have operated on W band (77 GHz) due to the superior resolution compared to K band radar, and none of the harmonics from W band should impact radar detectors.

Please let us know if you figure out what is causing the false!
Yes, technically I may be "blind" to 30% of K band on the low side. In application there were a few reasons for my decision to turn off KN1:

1) Running the 360 with K band "off" effectively rendered me "blind" to 100% of K band. I will take a 70% increase in detection any day of the week by running the 360c with KN1 off.

2) The County LEOs in my area drive around with K band "on" more often than not, and are all in the 24.15x range; which is above where KN1 cuts off.

3) The State Patrol mostly operates Ka band, so no affect on performance there.

4) As mentioned, I do in fact drive a Cadillac; and my findings coincide with yours as far as frequency emitted from the vehicle.

As always, it is up to the operator to decide what works best in their scenario. I found this a viable option for me, and have been happy with the results.
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DD: 2014 Cadillac CTS V-Sport Premium
RD: 360c w/ Blendmount
WiFi: Mito in-car hotspot (Verizon)
Phone: Pixel 3 XL 128GB Android 10 (Verizon)
Media: Android Auto
Dashcam: F770 2 ch F & R w/ park mode

Last edited by SmoovC; July 26th, 2019 at 04:12 PM.
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