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  #71  
Old March 20th, 2017
atc250r atc250r is offline
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As a Redline owner, I can barely tolerate the falses. And I live in a remote area. I'm near a city of 10,000 people and the Redline falses steady in the city. When I go to a large city, it's completely useless. I ignore every K band alert within city limits.

Thankfully, 90% of my driving is rural highways, so that's why I keep the Redline (for now). But I think my driving environment is different than most people, so idk how others can tolerate the Redline?
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  #72  
Old March 20th, 2017
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BelsCortFan BelsCortFan is offline
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Originally Posted by atc250r View Post
As a Redline owner, I can barely tolerate the falses. And I live in a remote area. I'm near a city of 10,000 people and the Redline falses steady in the city. When I go to a large city, it's completely useless. I ignore every K band alert within city limits.

Thankfully, 90% of my driving is rural highways, so that's why I keep the Redline (for now). But I think my driving environment is different than most people, so idk how others can tolerate the Redline?
You've got several options: turn off K band if not used in your area. If that's not an option, try TSR on with Auto mode setting. That's about as good as you're gonna get.
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  #73  
Old March 21st, 2017
DetectorDan DetectorDan is offline
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Originally Posted by BelsCortFan View Post
Question: If the Max 1&2 were so great, why were they unceremoniously dumped after only three years of product run? Few updates , no IVT and mid level performance perhaps? They never lived up to their expectations.
And expectations were driven by hype. It never was the "longest range on all bands, all guns" unit that marketing was selling and early adopters felt slighted. Understandable given the retail price north of $600.

No need for a Max I once the Max II came and now that we can have arrows, maybe there's no place for the Max II. I haven't seen any announcements so all I have to go on is what I read here and on RDF. But Kasher's got a valid point - the market does need an "everyman" detector for people who just want to mount it and go and the Max II certainly fills those shoes.

The Max II I have isn't the Max I've read about in one and two year old posts. It's no M3 but I bet today's Max II would blow away the first Max II.

Dan

Last edited by DetectorDan; March 21st, 2017 at 07:11 AM.
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  #74  
Old March 21st, 2017
apenland01 apenland01 is offline
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Originally Posted by BelsCortFan View Post
You've got several options: turn off K band if not used in your area. If that's not an option, try TSR on with Auto mode setting. That's about as good as you're gonna get.
I think the problem moving forward is that police are going to be moving back to using more K band radar guns knowing it is difficult to counter in the era of civilian vehicle radar systems.

It wouldn't surprise me if new purchases by police for radar guns in the next couple of years are for K band guns, not Ka.....

With K band guns and LIDAR, they will have all the money making equipment they need.
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  #75  
Old March 21st, 2017
atc250r atc250r is offline
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Originally Posted by apenland01 View Post
I think the problem moving forward is that police are going to be moving back to using more K band radar guns knowing it is difficult to counter in the era of civilian vehicle radar systems.

It wouldn't surprise me if new purchases by police for radar guns in the next couple of years are for K band guns, not Ka.....

With K band guns and LIDAR, they will have all the money making equipment they need.
That's likely, but hopefully not, the sad truth of our future.

Question- does all the K band radar on newer vehicles and semi trucks cause any problems for LEO's using K band guns?
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  #76  
Old March 21st, 2017
DetectorDan DetectorDan is offline
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Originally Posted by atc250r View Post
That's likely, but hopefully not, the sad truth of our future.

Question- does all the K band radar on newer vehicles and semi trucks cause any problems for LEO's using K band guns?
This question came up in another post somewhere.

I don't know the answer to your question, atc250 but I'll post what I think. But I am posting speculation and conjecture.

The answer isn't cut and dry. Police radar gun receivers don't work like our detectors. They aren't scanning a band of frequencies looking to sense any one frequency. The gun knows what frequency it's transmitting on and so the receive side of the gun can be designed to look for that frequency. *IF* this is the way it works - and I'm pretty sure this is the way it works with older units - then the gun may be affected by another frequency close to the guns transmit frequency (these other frequencies close to the guns transmit frequency are the BSM frequencies).

What the gun does at this point is determined by it's programming (its firmware). If the receiver can sense "all is not right with the world/I'm receiving more than one frequency", it may not display a speed reading. Or it may display it's best guess as to a speed. For our sake, let's hope it's the former. The gun designers do have an obligation to make the guns as accurate as possible, which in this case is not displaying a speed reading that can't be determined with 100% confidence.

The designers of newer police radar guns are probably aware of the BSM issue and would certainly take that into consideration during the design phase of new units.

So, unless you know what equipment your local PD has, it may be a moot point. Best to assume that their guns aren't affected rather than find out during a roadside conversation.

Dan

P.S. - FWIW - the local and state police near me have largely switched back to K band guns after years of using exclusively Ka guns. Maybe the K band gun manufacturers have been having a sale but if not, them switching back to K band would be quite the coincidence.
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  #77  
Old March 23rd, 2017
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Krazy-K Krazy-K is offline
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LEO radar operation is not normally affected by vehicle safety systems according to previous posts on this subject, here on this forum.

as posted on July 16, 2014

EscortRadar
July 16th, 2014, 01:40 PM
1) I believe that these are blind spot warning sensors.

2) As with your radar detector, door openers, and security system sensors which also emit radio frequencies, these are allowed under part 15 of the FCC rules. You have to exceed a certain transmission power on K band before a Part 90 FCC license is required to operate the device.

3) Possibly. TSR is already helping reduce alerts to certain vehicle anti-collision systems. Using Auto sensitivity mode will also help reduce these alerts. Passport Max has the greatest potential of being able to reject these alerts due to its better selectivity (HD radar detection).
ArtU
July 16th, 2014, 02:17 PM
1) I believe that these are blind spot warning sensors.

2) As with your radar detector, door openers, and security system sensors which also emit radio frequencies, these are allowed under part 15 of the FCC rules. You have to exceed a certain transmission power on K band before a Part 90 FCC license is required to operate the device.

3) Possibly. TSR is already helping reduce alerts to certain vehicle anti-collision systems. Using Auto sensitivity mode will also help reduce these alerts. Passport Max has the greatest potential of being able to reject these alerts due to its better selectivity (HD radar detection).

Thanks, I haven't made the other thread yet but I have found that new TSR systems, radar antenna/transducer in round pipe with Solar Cell on top being put on Exit signs. At times even with TSR on my 9500ix I get the POP on alert and fade from them once here and there including this morning on the way to work.

On part 15, the emissions is very very low are they not? Heck on s-band its 3dbm (2mw) for analog non-digital non-hopping device or its a part 90 device. Are you saying that the Walgreen's door opening sensors are part 15 devices? I think they must be putting out almost 30dbm (1watt) around here based on how far away I can pick them up.

Edit, so they would need to be intentional radiators in part 15.2x
in looking at part 15.209 radiation limits, above 960mhz the limits are the same, 500 micro-volts/meter which is about 3dbm.
Edit 2, part 15.245 found a special extension of power for devices in 24075-24175 2500 micro-volts/meter five times the 2wm or about 10millawatts.

I can now see the side facing blind spot K band transponders being small and settin' off the detector at the ranges they do, about 3-4 car lengths behind or 2-3 to the rear and side, nothing in front of them.
Thanks for the info!

Art
EscortRadar
July 16th, 2014, 03:55 PM
I recommend turning off POP detection, the factory default setting. Enabling POP detection significantly slows down the detector's alert response because it is dwelling on 33.8GHz looking for a POP mode burst. It also causes POP false alerts from nearby radar detectors as you are finding out

POP mode radar is only used on a few guns made by MPH Industries and is only used to preview a target's speed. Normal radar mode, along with a tracking history, is to be used to issue a citation.
ArtU
July 17th, 2014, 02:18 PM
I am not sure why you think I have POP mode on, its been off since I read your posts about it early this year.
EscortRadar
July 17th, 2014, 04:51 PM
At times even with TSR on my 9500ix I get the POP on alert and fade from them once here and there including this morning on the way to work.

Just reading your posts
NeverColdCallAgain
August 22nd, 2014, 05:11 PM
Ok here's a wild question, I wonder how long it will be before someone in a Mercedes like mine that emits K-band for Distronic cruise control will beat a ticket on the theory that the radar signal emitting from the nose of my car caused an inaccurate reading on the radar gun?

They have no way of proving that it did NOT interfere.
EscortRadar
August 22nd, 2014, 05:41 PM
Ok here's a wild question, I wonder how long it will be before someone in a Mercedes like mine that emits K-band for Distronic cruise control will beat a ticket on the theory that the radar signal emitting from the nose of my car caused an inaccurate reading on the radar gun?

They have no way of proving that it did NOT interfere.

The systems will not effect them, an engineer could prove it. It would most probably never get that far in court though.
jdong
August 22nd, 2014, 05:47 PM
The systems will not effect them, an engineer could prove it. It would most probably never get that far in court though.


Indeed, automotive radar employs FM-CW frequency shifting at least, and the more advanced systems employ either frequency hopping or a pulsed modulation scheme on top of that. It's extremely unlikely to actually interfere with radar, and even if it does it will affect the Doppler tone. Plus I'm sure every radar gun maker would be thrilled to send an expert witness to talk about their RFI rejection features.

Last edited by Krazy-K; March 23rd, 2017 at 12:57 PM.
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  #78  
Old March 23rd, 2017
DetectorDan DetectorDan is offline
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Great info Krazy-K

The relevant items about whether police radar is affected by BSM noise appears in bold in the post above. Some of the rest of the text is interesting because it talks about what it takes to be legal in the eyes of the FCC. Given that some auto mfgs aren't using the frequency band they were granted by the FCC, I wonder whether the FCC would hold them to the other regulations.

Sooner or later, someone will challenge a radar ticket in court with the "BSM affects the police radar gun" argument. I, and I'm sure a lot of readers here, will be interested in seeing how that plays out.

Quote:
Indeed, automotive radar employs FM-CW frequency shifting at least, and the more advanced systems employ either frequency hopping or a pulsed modulation scheme on top of that. It's extremely unlikely to actually interfere with radar, and even if it does it will affect the Doppler tone. Plus I'm sure every radar gun maker would be thrilled to send an expert witness to talk about their RFI rejection features.
Well, we know police radar should be CW. That's what their police radar guns receivers (as well as our radar detectors) are looking for. But given that some
BSM interference is very close in frequency, I don't know - without a lot more technical information about the guns - whether the police radar gun receiver can ignore frequencies that are very close to what the gun transmits, regardless of modulation. The hope would be (at least on the police side) that the gun wouldn't be affected by the BSM noise. But that would mean they've found a way to filter out the non-CW signals.

If this is true, I would suggest to Escort that they dig deep into the corporate wallet and hire the guys who've found a way to filter out all but CW on the police radar guns receivers. Because we certainly need that filter in our radar detectors.

To "mini-quote" from the quote above -

Quote:
It's extremely unlikely to actually interfere with radar, and even if it does it will affect the Doppler tone.
The thing is, it's exactly this Doppler frequency that the officer is able to audibly hear that the gun also uses to calculate the speed reading the gun displays!!!! It may be very difficult for a person to differentiate a pure CW tone from a CW tone that's been slightly modulated by an additional signal. Human hearing doesn't come with a spectrum analyzer. Relying on a human to distinguish whether a speed reading has been contaminated by a BSM signal wouldn't hold weight from a number of perspectives. Still, the electronics in the police radar gun receiver may be able to do this, I don't know.

Some of the guys on RDF have the same radar guns used by police depts. I read RDF but I've never seen reference to any test or investigation of whether these guns are affected by BSM noise.

Until I have better information, I err on the side of caution. I'm not going to think that LEO can't get a speed reading on me because an Acura just blew by me and is now in the police guns field of vision.

If anyone has any info about this topic or even informed opinion, please chime in.

Dan

Last edited by DetectorDan; March 23rd, 2017 at 06:27 PM.
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